Last updated on: 12/6/2018 10:23:50 AM PST

Should Teachers Get Tenure?

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PRO (yes) Comments (22)

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  • +11 +17 -6 Garrett Oden Jul. 30, 2014
    "I have both pro and con arguments, so I will be posting in both columns:
    Most/some teachers who have tenure are usually very good teachers. They work hard and are well diciplined in their teachings. Multiple surveys that have been completed show that those teachers have higher passing rates, compared to a teacher who has just started teaching because they have more experience. So, if the students are doing better, tenure is there to protect that teacher from being fired, should anything happen."
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    • +1 +1 0 Marilyn Apr. 26, 2017
      "Why are teacher getting fired for teaching kids how to read, write, and Mathematics"
    • -4 0 -4 Peter Alexander Sep. 20, 2014
      "Why do NYS Teachers need tenure? Why can't they accept a typical Civil Service appointment and live by Civil Service laws? There are Hundreds of Thousands Civil Servants in NYS that do not have "tenure" and have secure jobs. If they break laws or incompetent they go though a civil service trial. A typical civil service trial costs about $22,000. But if a teachers goes through a trial because of intemperance, they first need a year of "support services" , and then the trial costs about a quarter of a million dollars. That's way school district don't go through the trouble.
      Just make ALL teachers equivalent to NON-PROFESSIONAL Civil Servants and all your NYS educational woes will be solved"
  • +5 +5 0 isaac m. Apr. 26, 2017
    "they work to hard to be paid so little"
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  • +4 +9 -5 Jon Feb. 27, 2015
    "Your CON statement that "Tenure is unpopular among educators and the public" is not supported by your own facts. Teachers support it 53% and 32%, and while education professors overwhelmingly want it to be easier to terminate incompetent teachers, that's not equivalent to saying they don't support tenure. Firing incompetent teachers is a part of the tenure system."
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  • +3 +3 0 Allyson May. 25, 2016
    "I think that teacher tenure is good because then good people can keep their jobs.
    Before tenure, teachers could be dismissed when a new political party took power or a principal wanted to make room to hire his friends.
    Without the protection of tenure, teachers may feel pressured to use the same lesson plans and teach directly to standardized tests.
    Without the anxiety and fear of losing employment, teachers can focus their efforts on providing the best education for students."
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  • +3 +9 -6 Anthony Rossi Nov. 7, 2014
    "I understand the comments of many of the con postings, but as a someone who teaches subjects that are often political and controversial I feel that due process protections are essential to my profession. Tenure is not a "job for life." Many public professions have similar permanent status protections, many achieved after 6 months of satisfactory performance. Teachers often must wait 2 to 3 years for permanent status and can be released without comment before that time. Many jobs had these protections prior to the 1970's. It's very easy to misinterpret a profession or job when your only experience has been from the outside. Additionally, what constitutes "bad teaching" is very subjective. A bad teacher for one student may be a good teacher for another. Evaluation systems currently in place may need overhaul, but replacing them with systems weighted toward outcomes beyond the control of a teacher in the classroom is equally flawed. As a public institution, everyone feels they know what teaching is like based on a very limited sample of teachers they've come into contact with. Additionally, people are often ideologically motivated, overgeneralize, and unwilling to entertain evidence contrary to their stated position."
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    • -1 0 -1 TheCorrector Feb. 4, 2015
      "As a one-time teacher I have no problem with review. Don't you think it's preposterous to say "You've been here 3 years so now you are here for life"? As in "we can't fire you if we want to"? This isn't about controversial subjects, or your right to teach what you want. It's about being able to make sure a teacher doesn't get lazy, and allows us to fire that teacher without an act of Congress. It's not about holding teacher's back, it's about making sure kids get the best education they can, and if someone comes along better than you, I think you should be replaced."
  • +1 +5 -4 LB Apr. 29, 2015
    "The fact that Most School Board Presidents would prefer a system that makes it easier to fire teachers is an argument in favor of Tenure. It shows that seasoned teachers are still in danger of losing their jobs to arbitrary cost cutting measures that tenure currently protects them from. Veteran Teachers have more classroom experience. They get paid more than newbies. Of course the school board would love a system that makes it easier to fire teachers. The tenure system is what protects the good performing teachers from being fired for being more expensive."
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  • +1 +4 -3 jop Mar. 17, 2015
    "yes they shall"
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  • +1 +6 -5 Mike Eyeteach Jul. 29, 2014
    "I have never heard one teacher talk about tenure except in there first three years. No one in my school feels "safe/protected" because of it. This has been my experience in my district and surrounding ones and response each con on the list:
    #1 Complacency-insults 90% of the teachers. #2Unions work with teachers/principals to get poor teachers to improve. How is under performing evaluated? Test scores? Political protection does more harm than tenure. #3 protection from being fired due to cost cutting. It will happen w/o it. #4 There are more teachers than jobs so of course people will flock to jobs. Tenure has nothing to do with it. #5 Just like congress thinks racism no longer exists.#6 W/p proper evaluations or just cause teachers shouldn't be fired. #7 Fine increase the years needed. #9 It is earned because you have to be satisfactory as a teacher through evaluations. #10- Really? 2,600 Americans? There are 317 million people in us...3.7 million teachers. Let's poll them.#11 not valid. This is about employment. #13 Really?? I've taught for 23 years. I have NEVER been given a choice of assignments. All principal choice.
    Teachers still need protection from budget cuts and unfair firings. Plain and simple."
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    • 0 0 0 marilyn Apr. 26, 2017
      "School in different country have no teacher to teach then how to read, write and math"
    • -1 0 -1 TheCorrector Feb. 4, 2015
      "No, you don't. Everybody everywhere else has to answer to budget cuts and better men and women coming aboard. What makes you think teaching is an exception? Unfair firings meaning what?"
    • -1 0 -1 Robert C Novak, CPA Oct. 29, 2014
      "Teachers do not deserve protections from budget cuts any more than anyone else does. In corporate America budget cuts are a frequent source of job losses. It is naive and unfair to think that teachers are somehos expmpt from this. Unfair firing? There are US employment laws that apply to all. Providing teachers with special/extra protections is absurd and underserved."
  • 0 0 0 Camron G. Oct. 20, 2017
    "Yes, because teachers shouldn't have to fear the loss of their income because of reasons out of their control."
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  • 0 0 0 isaac m. Apr. 27, 2017
    "the teachers work too long to be paid so little"
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  • -1 +3 -4 jake Apr. 6, 2015
    "i think they should"
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    • +1 +1 0 isaac m. Apr. 26, 2017
      "good point"
  • -2 +3 -5 Patrick S Sep. 21, 2015
    "I think that the general structure of our educational system really needs modification and tenure just happens to be a consequence of a larger broken policy."
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  • -2 +9 -11 BA Nov. 5, 2013
    "I entirely support teacher tenure, but I also agree that there needs to be a mechanism that removes poor performers."
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  • -3 +5 -8 Charles H. Ellis III Mar. 29, 2014
    "I saw the News Hour's discussion of this matter on March 29. While I am sympathetic to the middle school students who got shortchanged in their learning, I am very much in favor of keeping teacher tenure, and having a fairly short probationary period (2-3 years, not 5) for new teachers. In my experiences as a parent of school children, PTA leader, and (most recently) a school volunteer, I have encountered no teachers who are anything less than "borderline saints." They teach not for the money but for the high purpose; it takes character, courage, judgment, and hard work."
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    • 0 0 0 TheCorrector Feb. 4, 2015
      "Babysitting requires the same virtues. We are not talking about babysitting."
  • -4 +3 -7 x46pqv Jun. 25, 2014
    "The O.J. Simpson trial took a year and cost $9 million, yet due process had to be followed."
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  • -6 +9 -15 michael mccachren Aug. 28, 2013
    "i am a retired teacher. several awards, incl .who's who, 3 yrs,, several honour soc., grad degrees and professional experience in both areas. tenure gives one the time to learn to teach, as well as students backgrounds & particular needs. timing, building working relatinoships
    w students, parents; curriculum needs, building student skills, & all in 9 months time. Not many do this well,
    at first. Knowing you will have the time to learn to teach is v important-esp to those who had not planned to teach. What professional person wants to work for little pay, long hours, while raising their own, w little promise of protection from district politics."
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  • -9 +16 -25 Mark Heinig, Jr. Jun. 22, 2012
    "Tenure has never been about teacher quality. It's about offering teachers job security as an inducement to remain in a poorly paid profession. Any state can retain effective teachers without tenure by paying them as much as people in other professions requiring a college education. (That means higher taxes.)

    A tenure contract is not unbreakable. I'm a retired principal, and I have done it. It simply requires a valid reason, administrators willing to do the extra work to build a strong case and school board members willing to risk the possibility of a negative community reaction. Most poor teachers aren't offered tenure in the first place!

    The real problem isn't teachers; it's money. We offer our youth the cheapest education that money can buy! We've been doing that for decades. Other countries don't. It keeps taxes low, and that's politically expedient. The importance of a well-educated work force to our prosperity grows every year.

    What's happening now is that we're getting what we paid for! If we abolish tenure the problem will be even worse. We've always paid our teachers poorly, substituting job security for dollars. What happens if we provide neither?"
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    • -2 +2 -4 BIFF Jul. 10, 2012
      "my kid's teacher has a guaranteed job and cannot be fired and makes a salary of $60,000 per yr with an elementary education degree !. Add in the guaranteed retirement, sick days, free health care and it is around $100,000 per year for a job that is 180 days and 6 1/2 hour days ! make me laugh you need to come see how teachers live. They are living far better than me with my B.A. in Business MGT. GO CRY ME A RIVER ! THIS IS A PART TIME JOB !! AND GUESS WHAT THE CIRRICULUM HAS NOT CHANGED IN 30 YEARS AND WE KEEP FALLING FARTHER BEHIND OTHER COUNTRIES THAT TAKE IT FAR MORE SERIOUSLY !"
  • -11 +12 -23 greg Feb. 14, 2012
    "yes BUT with performance bonuses or raises. So tenure with mediocre performance gets no raise. AND demonstrable intentional deplorable performance can result in a firing if it can be shown the teacher is antagonistic to most students."
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    • +1 +1 0 Jason Feb. 29, 2012
      "Are we okay with mediocre performance? Does a teacher need to be openly antagonistic to be fired? No, education is too important to waste on people that do not care to work for there jobs. If tenure was removed, good teachers would still be good teachers, and they would still have job security. The only change would be to the teachers that are mediocre and bad. Why should we settle for mediocre teachers when they can be replaced with GOOD teachers."
  • -14 +13 -27 Mary Todd Jun. 23, 2012
    "Having worked for a prejudiced principal who happened to have no principles, I would never have made it past three years without tenure. She would have fired every white teacher and hired only those of color as the came to apply. She harrassed white teachers to noend, and left non-white teachers alone when they were doing a terrible job.
    She eventually retired jjust as she was getting investigated for embezzlement. In anothher case, as long as you uwere HIspanic, you got the jjob. Or if you carried a Bible into the interview with you you were hired over other people who were greatly qualified, had experience, but were African. Until administrators are held accountable by teachers and are fireable, then teachers need tenure."
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    • +4 +4 0 Beeg Sep. 7, 2012
      "Welcome to the real world. There are bad bosses and there are good bosses. I had to deal with bad bosses myself and decided to quit. Why do teachers get preferred treatments just because you are a teacher?"
  • -14 +22 -36 Kevin Jul. 28, 2011
    "Most of the states who are at the BOTTOM of student achievement have no teacher tenure because they don't have collective bargaining. So the argument that tenure destroys education is ridiculous. Finland is ranked #1 and they have 98 percent union. Teacher tenure is not the problem with public school education. If you hear about the US ranking behind all these other countries, keep in mind that the US would be ranked #1 in the world if you didn't count the lowest 10 percent.( the average teacher salary in Korea is higher than the average teacher salary in the US) Florida does not have teacher tenure. It isn't that difficult to get rid of bad teachers. The real problem is that if you 50 percent of your new teachers quitting in the first 5 years, you are constantly replacing QUALITY teachers. There was a time when pregnant teachers were sent home as soon as they were showing. Or, in some places if you didn't go to the right church or if you were gay you went first. Michelle Rhee taught for 3 years. You wouldn't ask a pilot or a doctor with just 3 years experience to solve a serious problem.. They would have no credibility. And, MANY of the claims Rhee makes don't seem to withstand any scrutiny at all."
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    • +5 +5 0 Brayden May. 2, 2012
      "Finland is not america, my good sir"
    • +3 +3 0 jon Apr. 28, 2012
      "if you cant do your job inside and out in 3 years you are worthless and dont deserve said job teachers need to be treated this way because they need to be pushed just as hard as students to strive for better"
    • 0 0 0 Scottie L Jan. 9, 2013
      ""In ten years, only about 47 out of 100,000 teachers were actually terminated from New Jersey's schools. Original research conducted by the Center for Union Facts (CUF) confirms that almost no one ever gets fired in Newark, New Jersey's largest school district, no matter how bad. Over four recent years, CUF discovered, Newark's school district successfully fired about one out of every 3,000 tenured teachers annually. Graduation statistics indicate that the district needs much stronger medicine: Between the 2001-2002 and the 2004-2005 school years, Newark's graduation rate (not counting the diplomas "earned" through New Jersey's laughable remedial exam) was a mere 30.6 percent. I'm sorry what were you saying? Sir, the school system fails more than you think, look up the facts."
  • -16 +12 -28 debbie jenkins Nov. 30, 2011
    "until organized sports are removed from schools, it will be necessary to protect the non-coaching teachers jobs from being replaced by coaches."
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    • +2 +2 0 jon Apr. 28, 2012
      "schools in new york the budget for sports and arts is almost non existent because of the teaching staff and there need for more benefits every year"
  • -18 +9 -27 Edgar Flores Mar. 22, 2012
    "The good thing about it help the good teacher know they being successful and they should follow this more because they can justify which teacher belong there and help them know which teacher is having success also it show the teacher care about the student"
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CON (no) Comments (60)

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  • +68 +91 -23 Mark Grimm Jul. 28, 2011
    "Tenure's fundamental flaw is that it puts job security ahead of student achievement. While there are many great teachers, the tenure system protects poor ones and we cannot afford to "waste a year" of a kid's schooling. However, leaving teachers' job security up to the whims of administrators and politicians is unacceptable, too. We need to replace tenure with a fair system of evaluation that includes input from fellow teachers, supervisors, and most especially, parents."
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    • +1 +1 0 LB Apr. 29, 2015
      "I agree with most of what you say, except that I don't think we need to replace tenure. I believe what is needed is for states to have a clearly defined evaluation process for granting administrators aren't rubber stamping mediocre teachers into complacency but instead are rewarding seasoned, and accomplished teachers with the benefits of greater job security. Student achievement is influences by many factors outside of a teachers control. (Such as parent involvment or lack thereof, or district resources.)"
    • +1 +1 0 Jewel Klier Dec. 4, 2013
      "That's right I agree"
    • 0 0 0 Mark Grimm Apr. 27, 2017
      "I don't think parents hate teachers. Parents are frustrated with a system that protects under performing teachers."
    • 0 0 0 marilyn Apr. 26, 2017
      "Why do parents hates teacher that help kids to learn for they future."
    • 0 +2 -2 greg Feb. 14, 2012
      "Local parents must demand their legal right to influence and determine the employment fate of teachers, the curiculuum and text books. The Fed must stop bribing and black-mailing our states using our money to entice our legislators."
  • +30 +51 -21 DKDAy Jul. 28, 2011
    "Tenure has too many negatives. Bad teachers get retained too often while good ones without tenure are let go. What is wrong with treating a teaching position like any other work place job? As long as you're the best for the job you get to keep it. Your customer or product may change but if you remain the best, you retain the right to the job."
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    • -1 0 -1 jess May. 28, 2016
      "Teaching is not like any other work place. We are required to teach students who have no respect for themselves or others. We are required to teach concepts parents can't understand. We are switched from grade to grade and room to room. There is no other job like it. Some classes have great students and some classes have horrible students. Tenure protects us from those horrible years as those students affect our instruction daily."
    • -1 0 -1 LB Apr. 29, 2015
      "You are focusing on the negatives. More good teachers get retained than bad. And if bad teachers get retained, that is an issue that needs to be addressed administratively. Administrators aren't required to grant tenure without evaluating the teacher's performance. If they are simply rubber stamping a mediocre teacher for tenure, then it is THAT system that needs to be overhauled."
    • -4 +2 -6 matt Apr. 30, 2013
      "it's not bad teachers. Don't blame idiocy on teachers. Most children now adays are raised by failure parents. Raise your own kids ya lazy bums."
  • +15 +36 -21 Falcon Jul. 28, 2011
    "I fail to see what is so unique about teachers that their actions and performance are virtually unassailable by superiors and the public who pay their salaries. Tenure is worse than the actions that are feared. We can easily have a system that checks the unwarranted actions of administrators.

    At the same time I would say that it is not entirely fair to hold teachers solely responsible for students performance. Parents and the students themselves must bear their appropriate share. In the interim, until that knotty problem is solved, we should resurrect tracks in teaching so that less prepared, less talented, or less motivated studetns do not interfere with education. The notion that there is only one level of learning is demonstrably untrue. Mainstreaming is a fine social goal, but it is not conducive to the best educational performance."
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    • 0 0 0 LB Apr. 29, 2015
      "Tenure simply ensures the teacher has an impartial hearing before being fired. It doesn't grant them a job for life. (And what makes their position unique is how easy it is for a local dad, disgruntled about how little playing time his mediocre football-playing son recieved, to run and get elected to a local school board for the sole purpose of firing the teacher who coached the football team.) If your job were tied to the political whims of a handful of local politicians' interests, I imagine you would demand similar protection."
    • 0 0 0 Daniel Mar. 26, 2015
      "And you know what is conducive to best educational performance how?"
  • +13 +28 -15 Steven Oct. 27, 2011
    "Tenure eliminates the need for humanity's most fundamental driving force that motivates self improvement. That force is competition, when a teacher has no fear of being fired in favor of a teacher of superior caliber, they will see no need to improve their ways, or the need to act professional in their work environment. Many years I have dealt with such unmotivated teachers who make a minimalist effort to assist classes I have attended or accommodate and help me overcome my learning disabilities. This has forced me to pick myself up and find a way to manage after the culture shock and mental shock of not being prepared enough for my essential classes of writing and arithmetic in college. And like many who have worded it in other ways, why fear being fired when you know you are the best at what you do? You only need such compensation if your aware you have some form of inadequacy that would get you fired. it is easily mitigated by a constant strive for self improvement through the need to be better then the potential teacher on the street looking for your job position, just like any other form of employment competition."
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  • +4 +6 -2 Erin M Dec. 2, 2013
    "Two of my teachers has tenure, and has been charged with more than a few accounts of sexual harassment and sexual assault on students, but still have their jobs because they have tenure."
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  • +4 +14 -10 Jim Sep. 17, 2012
    "Can anyone tell me why a teacher can have a job for life after 3 to & years and no one in this world can but them . What so hard about what thay do the harder then Police, Fire fighters, doctors Ect . Most jobs you have to work 20 to 30 years to get what the teachers get in too short of a time."
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  • +3 +6 -3 Jewelklier Dec. 4, 2013
    "I'm against teacher tenure because it does nothing to benifiet the kids nd all it does is let teachers get the chance to ruin our education.thats why I'm against it"
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  • +3 +10 -7 Katherine Oct. 19, 2013
    "Human are not perfect.
    They may work very hard at point of their life, however, we ALL make mistakes; which is why we were put in this earth....
    For a test,
    So, I strongly believe that tenure is not a solution, nor a wise decision,
    we should be awarded for what we do...
    but it does not make any sense to give a lifetime award for... just a few years of hard work?
    That can not be.."
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  • +1 +4 -3 Randal Agostini Jun. 5, 2012
    "Many of the reasons that Tenure was introduced no longer apply. Tenure also makes it difficult for a Teacher to move on, move out, or move back in to the education system. Tenure also applies to pension benefits, which should not be the case. Teachers should be able to contribute to and earn benefits as soon as they have passed a probation period."
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  • +1 +11 -10 K. Goodman Jun. 5, 2012
    "It protects bad teachers from getting fired. If we get rid of teacher tenure, teachers will have to raise the bar for themselves when it comes to student performance. The rest of us have to perform at an acceptable level to keep our jobs. Why shouldn't teachers?"
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    • 0 0 0 Mary Jun. 23, 2012
      "Silly girl, teachers don't handle the bars. Admin does. if yuo fail too many students for lack of preparation, home guidance, and willingness to work, then you get written up. Teacherrs are told they can only have so many Fs, Ds, Etc. No matterr where you teach, who you teach, or if they speak English. If you want better education tell the ones in charge, not the teachers, and tell the parents too!"
  • +1 +6 -5 Danielle May. 24, 2012
    "I attended WVU to both my undergrad and masters in accounting. Overall the professors were wonderful however in the grad program's Mergers and Acquisitions class we had a professor who had a stroke many years ago. He no longer knew what he was teaching. The class was a joke. It took him over a month to cover chapter one. He was always late and continuously asked us if we (again a graduate level accounting class) had heard of Enron. Students never went because you truly did not receive an education from attending. I found out that he has been like this for years. Whenever you would speak with other faculty all they would say is that it's a "difficult situation." the difficult part is knowing that he's getting paid over $100,000, while I'm out of an education on a topic that will be on the CPA exam. I promise that I am not being dramatic. He would hand out quizzes and then give us the answers BEFORE collecting them. He appeared to always be delayed. I feel bad for him, but why would I lose out on an education (that I paid for!!) just because he was a good teacher over a decade ago? They teach us about how firms need quality control however with tenure, quality control of professors seems impossible"
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  • 0 +1 -1 Mariah Mar. 29, 2017
    "Should teachers be fired for doing something horribly bad?
    I think that teachers should get fired and I know something that can help. TEACHER TENURE.
    Teacher tenure I think should make sure that teachers get fired for doing bad things for many reasons, one make sure teachers can't get rehired, also teachers can't show why they need to come back to teach.
    Finally, how teachers can get fired.
    One, reasons is make sure that teachers get fired. Tenure should make sure if that cause when teachers do bad things the students don't need to rub off on it and have the teachers be a bad remodel.
    Also, the teachers can't show why they should be able to come back to teach. I don't think that they should be able cause what if they do bad things to the kids and then something may happen. It might just be better to fire them for good.
    Finally, tenure should protect the school buy firing the teachers, like if they do drugs or something to the kids, or teach about something horrible. You never know.
    In conclusion, tenure should be where you fire teachers, for many reasons. What do you think?"
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  • 0 +2 -2 kevin massimino Aug. 1, 2014
    "this is Ragism on steriods! Sure the less expensive labor will get the work,but who will work every year and act as this is a profession;you want long term employment and experience;any evaluation is always based on popularity;i was a state worker;ask the gas worker in western penna,"
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  • 0 +3 -3 Mason Unthank Feb. 13, 2014
    "If teachers suck, then they can't get fired!"
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  • 0 +3 -3 bob Jan. 6, 2014
    "teachers would rely on their tenure... such as my kid's teacher--- all she does is: draw, pay attention, do ridiculous things, follow whatever she does, and that's it. She doesn't even teach the class... especially that she is the teacher of the GATE class"
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  • 0 +3 -3 Cady Jul. 29, 2013
    "I feel that teachers do not perform as well in the classroom because no matter what they do they won't lose their jobs. It is unfair to students across the country as well as an added reason as to why louisville dropout rate is higher then kentuckys."
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  • 0 +4 -4 Mary West Jun. 13, 2013
    "Unfortunately, I have had contact with a few really bad teachers. The school districts and people need to realize that teachers are human and although some are very good, some are very bad. Tenure, allowed these teachers to teach for many years. They could not be fired but were reprimanded. The children were the victims. All the other issues they say tenure protects against could be dealt with in a court of law just as the rest of us have to resort to.

    If we all had tenure on our jobs, would we care as much about job performance? Why should anyone have job security above other working people? Anything they say Tenure protects them against could be dealt with in a court. After all isnt that what the rest of us have to do? Children should come first, always!"
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  • 0 +4 -4 Keith Dec. 26, 2012
    "I just watched "Waiting for Superman" and my informed belief is that tenure is the main cause of the USA's poor performance in the global scope of education."
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  • 0 +7 -7 Kristy Dec. 2, 2012
    "I DO NOT agree with teachers getting tenure! Do any other employees get tenure? An employee at AFLAC, BCBS, Walmart or Target can't get it so why should a teacher? What so they can do a GOOD job for a few years and be protected?? I think tenure is absolutely LUDACRIS!! I have 3 kids in the public school system and a teacher that my child has had this past year is protected by tenure and the school has nothing, but complaints from parents. She is not a good teacher, but she is protected. I think there is too many people looking for jobs and if the teacher is not willing to do a GOOD job EVERY YEAR, then there will always be a good one looking for one! I actually think EVERY PARENT should be able to rate the teacher in a survey at the end of the year that goes straight to the Professional Standards Committe and the school should also have to report EVERY parent Complaint about the teacher to the professional standards committe that certifies these teachers!! Can a Doctor or Nurse get tenure? Every person should be held accountable for their job performance!!!"
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  • 0 +7 -7 phl Sep. 30, 2012
    "I'm a college senior. I graduated from high school in '09. I can say, from recent experience, that tenure for high school teachers brings about negative consequences, at least in a low-income area. I am from Hidalgo County in Texas, one of the poorest in the nation. It is easy to understand why some teachers would give up on lower level students in this area. Although their reasons are clearly evident, these teachers shouldn't be granted tenure. No, I am not a teacher, so I may not understand the aspect of job protection, but the whole idea of education focuses on students and granting them the highest level of learning possible. Giving a teacher tenure allows for complacency after that tenure is granted. I'm interested in seeing the difference in the quality of education coming from teachers in higher income areas than those in lower income areas. Does anybody think there is a difference in teachers' attitudes?"
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  • 0 +6 -6 Marie Powning Sep. 13, 2012
    "We have current laws for the discrimination they fear. It cost 100's of thousands of dollars to fire a crappy teacher who is suspended WITH pay, no other career has such a ridciulous policy, get rid of it."
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  • 0 +4 -4 Beeg Sep. 7, 2012
    "Tenure cheats students. I grew up in the Chicago public school system. Many teachers never taught anything. They allowed students to run around the classroom while they read newspaper. They were paid as much as the teachers who cared about the students. Thankfully I was in honors classes and had great teachers. Why was (and is) tenure fair to the good teachers and to the students? Why is it fair to tax payers? We will no longer be the world leader when our school system fails our kids. If tenure is so great, why are our children so behind?"
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    • 0 0 0 bob Jan. 6, 2014
      "Same here.... my kid's teacher never taught things... even he is in honors, his teacher is just... well... tenure is just problem"
    • 0 0 0 Carol Jul. 29, 2013
      "very true!"
  • 0 +4 -4 Refugio Magallon Aug. 3, 2012
    "I do understand why this law got passes and exist. Also why teachers decide to get tenure. I understand this causes problems and is not fair for older, or more experienced teachers. Here is the thing, why have teachers that either wont teach, or will get lazy and just sit in the room not doing anything. Also do you want the youth to get even more stupid as every school year that goes by? The change is needed, the United States is not first on education anymore and its been that way for a long time now. The youth is what will describe our country in the upcoming years. Do you want everyone to be stupid or smart? Everyone in the planet will be able to attack us and we wont know how to defend ourselves. Technology gets better as time passes, we will have guns and others will have machine controlled weapons. Tenure makes teachers lazy, anyway if its not about the race, gender, or personal reasons, why would you be scared as a teacher if you know how to teach?"
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  • 0 +5 -5 web brewer Jun. 10, 2012
    "As stated, we have discrimination laws now that render anachronistic the original arguments in favor of tenure. If we don't trust superintendents/principals to make good decisions about their staff, then we're hiring the wrong people for those jobs."
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  • 0 +7 -7 Ray in NC Apr. 2, 2012
    "IMO: Tenure is equivalent to entitlement. It allows people to slow down and not continue to strive for a better way."
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  • 0 +9 -9 Gregg Feb. 23, 2012
    "The test for a teacher should always be results, did the students in his/her care learn to their potential? Tenure is a bad joke played on defenseless children."
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  • 0 +7 -7 Anonamous Feb. 6, 2012
    "Bad teachers are protected, when good teachers are laid off. Come on!! I had a crappy teacher for 4 years, and she couldn't get fired because of it!!"
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    • -1 0 -1 bluummbboo Nov. 27, 2012
      "they arent always bad teachers"
  • 0 +19 -19 Meghan Dec. 2, 2011
    "Tenure is pure stupidity. It is basically giving a teacher a reason to slack off and still get paid. For any other job, if you were doing poorly, you get fired. Plain, simple, and how it should be. I am in highschool and I have encountered teachers who simply do not care to put effort into their work. Telling us to read a textbook and fill out a worksheet isn't teaching. Bad teachers don't deserve tenure because they don't perform well at their job. Good teachers don't need it because their good performance will keep them with a secure job. It's a win win situation; bad teachers go bye bye and good teachers stay."
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  • -1 0 -1 Natalie A. Mar. 15, 2018
    "As a student, I have come across many great teachers. However, there have been a select few who cannot seem to do their job as a teacher, and it can greatly impact their students. For example, I was physically abuse by a SHS teacher, and because of the teacher tenure, he could not be fired and received no repercussions whatsoever. I have also had a few teachers that refused to properly communicate with students and teach the required material. In CE Chemistry, I would have to spend an immense amount of time researching information we were not taught because of the lack of teaching ability my teacher possessed. When it came time for the tests, there was tons of information we were never taught, therefore, it impacted my grade.

    Another thought; in almost any other job, employees can be fired for whatever reason, but somehow teachers are exempt. Like any other job, teachers should have to work hard to prove their worth and addition to the education programs."
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  • -1 0 -1 Olivia Apr. 3, 2017
    "Teacher tenure should be able to fire teachers if they do something bad for many reasons like, they need to lose there job,
    Also, it can make it difficult for the teachers, finally, the teachers can't show why they should be able to come back to school and teach.
    One reason is they ( teachers ) need to lose there job, because tenure can remove or should I say needs to remove the incentive for teachers to put in more.
    Also, tenure needs to be able teachers, because it makes it difficult to remove under-preforming teachers because the proses takes a lot of time.
    Finally, tenure needs to be able not to show why they should be able to come back.
    In conclusion, tenure should fire teachers for doing bad things."
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  • -1 0 -1 Bridgett May. 25, 2016
    "Teacher tenure
    Personally, I think teacher tenure is not the greatest idea. It's very hard to remove teachers who poorly perform.The Teachers also can have no impact on kids.It could also take months and lots of money to get rid of poorly performing teachers,but there is a positive side of teacher tenure as well its dose protect preforming teachers who have no wrong doing and a teacher it self that has done no wrong doing makes great impact on kids,But I still conclude this for no teacher tenure."
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  • -1 0 -1 Leroy Mar. 14, 2016
    "Applied to another profession, tenure still makes no sense:

    1. Tenure protects nurses from being fired for personal, political, or other non-work related reasons.
    2. Tenure prohibits hospitals from firing experienced nurses to hire less experienced and less expensive nurses.
    3. Tenure protects nurses from being fired for issuing unpopular, controversial, or otherwise challenged patient care.
    4. Nursing tenure is a justifiable reward for several years of positive evaluations by hospital administrators.
    5. Tenure allows nurses to advocate on behalf of patients and disagree openly with Medical Doctors and hospital administrators.
    6. Tenure protects nurses from being prematurely fired after a patient makes a false accusation or a family member threatens expensive legal action against the hospital.
    7. Tenure encourages the careful selection of qualified and effective nurses.
    8. The formal dismissal process guaranteed by tenure protects nurses from punitive evaluation systems and premature dismissal.
    9. Tenure allows nurses to work more effectively since they do not need to be in constant fear of losing their jobs."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Patrick S Sep. 21, 2015
    "I thought it was interesting that the high school that eliminated tenure saw so many applications."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Brad Feb. 5, 2015
    "I am a current high school student, and I believe that tenure is one of the most horrendous activities ever known to man. The notion of tenure is flawed; no where else in the metaphorical "real world" can a person under perform consistently, but keep her job under the premise that the safety net helps keep them work better. I personally have had under performing teachers who have kept their jobs because of tenure, and it is annoying. Some of these teachers are arrogantly awful."
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  • -1 +1 -2 TheCorrector Feb. 4, 2015
    "Absolutely not. It's sad to see the same teachers ruin so many kids because they got lazy when they got tenure. It gives teachers no incentive to stay on top of their field. In primary grades, I have seen people with no knowledge other than that required for a teaching certificate teaching children. What does such a person have to teach? So, we allow them to teach, but they must come up for yearly review, which means no tenure. Few other jobs that aren't paid by the government grant such tenure, you have to perform. In my opinion, it is unqualified people teaching that has led to our current sorry predicament. Certainly review is the only way we can be sure we have only the best teaching our kids."
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  • -1 +2 -3 RGIII Jan. 22, 2015
    "Tenure protects bad teachers from being let go. Kids with bad teachers don't get the education they need to be successful in life."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Peter Alexander Sep. 20, 2014
    "Why do NYS Teachers need tenure? Why can't they accept a typical Civil Service appointment and live by Civil Service laws? There are Hundreds of Thousands Civil Servants in NYS that do not have "tenure" and have secure jobs. If they break laws or incompetent they go though a civil service trial. A typical civil service trial costs about $22,000. But if a teachers goes through a trial because of intemperance, they first need a year of "support services" , and then the trial costs about a quarter of a million dollars. That's way school district don't go through the trouble.
    Just make ALL teachers equivalent to NON-PROFESSIONAL Civil Servants and all your NYS educational woes will be solved"
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  • -1 +1 -2 Looky! Sep. 19, 2014
    "The whole scapegoat deal looks like more of an anti-con instead of a pro..."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Hannah Ervin Sep. 7, 2014
    "I think that teachers should not have tenure because it is not fair to new teachers. If you are young and are looking for a teaching job and all of these schools that have teachers with tenure then they may never be able to find a job unless a teacher decides to quite. I also disagree with this subject because if a teacher is so bad that kids are not learning anything then it is not fair to the children at the school. You should get that teacher out of there to benefit the kids. If the kids do poorly in classes then it makes the school look bad so why allow these terrible teachers to stay?"
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  • -1 +4 -5 Elba Jul. 29, 2014
    "I have seen tenured teachers get fired here in NYC but I have also seen tenured bad teachers get to keep their jobs and that is a problem. I think it all depends on the administrators in each particular school because I worked in an elementary school in the Bronx in 2006-2008 as a para professional and I witnessed the teacher I was assisting violently shove a 10 year old child. I reported her anonymously but they went on a witch hunt and found out it was me, they then promised graduation with honors to all her students in exchange for lying and saying they did not see her which they all did. These are little children and the dept uses these children who are scared to save them and this is not fair. Anyway, I ended up getting fired for supposedly lying about my identity when I reported this very out of control teacher and she is still working doing the same thing, putting the children down by calling them losers and telling them that they will become drug dealers and such. I know this because I have friends in the school and they tell me that she is still the same except that they do evaluate her quite often but she should have been fired but because of Tenure, she is still abusing children."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Max S. Jun. 17, 2014
    "Tenure is an anachronism. It was designed for another time. These days, it creates a zero accountability environment - resulting in teachers who can't be fired - and lots of abuse. Tenure ends up limiting learning and lowering teacher credibility by protecting poor performers. Unions could fix many of these problems (especially termination for poor performance), but won't.

    Most teachers are great. But, we need to stop protecting ones that are bad. Bad teachers hurt students - with far reaching effects.

    Teachers and all public employees should face the same risks and meet the performance expectations seen in the private sector. This is a surer way to protect and nurture our children."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Barb Williams Jun. 11, 2014
    "As a 35 year teacher I agree with most but a few other things need to be considered. #1 Administrative review... Many are administrators because they did not like to teach. How would teachers be evaluated? Something needs to be done as to who enters the profession. Having had many student teachers I have learned one can almost tell when a student teacher enters the room if they will be a good teacher or not. Some things can be learned but most are part of ones personality."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Amy Jun. 10, 2014
    "As a veteran teacher, I am not a fan of tenure. I have taught in both a tenure and a non-tenure state (the information presented in the article that claims that all states have tenure is incorrect). In the good schools where I taught, most teachers work hard and care about students, although that may not be the case in all places. In both states, mediocre teachers can and do stay for years. However, in the tenure state truly awful and incompetent tenured teachers take years to fire even when administration is actively trying to take care of the situation. In the non-tenure state there was still a process of documentation and remediation for the teacher but the worst, most ineffective ones were fired. Society need to realize, however, that the best, brightest, and most inspiring teachers will not rush to take jobs a low performing schools without compensation comparable to what an exceptional, highly educated worker can make in the private sector. The best teachers have options as to where to work, and most want to work where working conditions are good. We love what we do so we are willing to do it even though we could make more money doing something else. Something must change to attract top professionals to some schools."
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  • -1 +1 -2 Dan May. 25, 2014
    "The argument that it protects teacher from religious, political, or other types of judgement from administrators is invalid, because those same types of persecutions can happen in any workplace."
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  • -1 +2 -3 Art Jan. 27, 2014
    "As a parent, from personal experience, I have had to deal with the Education Mafia at Sacramento City Unified School District (SCUSD) in regards to my 3 children as they attended local, Land Park schools. NO, District employees, to include non-Teachers, Teachers and Administrators who are only collecting a pay check, should be held to a higher standard, continually. There should not be carte blance employment rights, but specific rules and regulations that need to be followed. We still have a High School- Part time, off campus Cross Country/T&F Coach and Principal who are presently 'out of their league' but untouchable, due to the SCUSD Education Mafia refusal to remove or replace these employees."
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  • -1 +4 -5 James Nov. 4, 2013
    "I'm con because I have an English teacher that is doing the exact opposite of teaching. She refuses to answer questions, think's she is always right because she is teacher, refuses to listen to anyone but herself, spills confidential information infront of the entire class about other students, yells and screams at students, and gets angry at us when she cannot work the computer because she is hilariously technologically incompetent. But this is no joke, I'm a student and I feel like I cannot learn anything worthwhile from this woman and worse I am not sure if she can be fired or even scolded because I'm not sure if she's tenure. If she is tenure, I feel like there's no hope left in the educational system if we're letting pathetic baby boomers keep harrasing and berating students, making us lose all drive for learning anything. To sum it up, it's bad teachers with tenure that are provoking students to drop out. No teacher, not even great ones, should ever get tenure."
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    • 0 0 0 Mojii Apr. 15, 2015
      "That is my 5th grade experience. Down to the gender of the teacher, the subject, and the mannerisms. The only difference was that my teacher was a extreme environmentalist: only write essays about how humanity is the scourge of the earth, anyone?"
  • -1 +3 -4 LoLo (H.S. student) Oct. 10, 2013
    "Hello! I'm a junior in high school and have written an essay on this subject for my AP English class. I have found this website extremely helpful and have incorporated ten quotes and stats into my essay. The main reason that I believe that teachers should not receive tenure is that it is completely against the way people earn a living in the private sector. The private sector is based completely on competition. Apple only continues to keep creating and releasing new iPhones, for example, because Microsoft and Samsung provide competition in the cell phone market. Unfortunately, student's low test scores compared to other countries have proven that most teachers will not take time out of their lives to improve their teaching and lesson plans. What is the point to essential working overtime to become a better teacher if there is no pay off for them? In the same way, if the iPhone was the only phone, there would be no reason for Apple to take extra time to improve the device. Teachers need incentives if we want to truly raise the education level of American public schools. However, tenure classifies all teachers with 3 years of experience into one standard salary group. Educators should be paid in response to their performance. --LoLo"
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  • -1 +2 -3 Dan Oct. 4, 2013
    "It doesn't allow incentive to do your best. In the private sector you can be fired to doing a bad job and you get rewarded for a good job. Making it a free market will allow good teachers to get paid more and filter out the ineffective teachers."
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  • -1 +2 -3 Adair Aug. 25, 2013
    "I can't help but shake my head at the excellent teachers who say they need tenure to speak out against bad decisions by the administration or to engage their students in controversial projects. They're selling themselves short. Teachers of their caliber and passion are rare enough and needed everywhere--if they get fired unfairly and decide not to sue, they'll just find an excellent job somewhere with an administration more willing to support them, and the unjust administration they left will flounder and hopefully change or get fired themselves. I work in a highly-skilled professional field where qualified workers are in short supply, and, yes, you can still speak out without too much fear when you know you're that valuable."
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  • -1 +10 -11 John Daly Apr. 17, 2012
    "Tenure ? No. The public school system is so poor in the U.S. that 70% of computer science P.H.D's in this country are earned by foreigners on H1B visas. ANY SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY WILL NOT PERFORM TO A HIGH STANDARD.
    The public school system in florida is run by the unions for the unions and no one is going to tell them that we are 84th in math in the world. My kid's teacher gets a package worth $ 100,000 a year if you include retirement and insurance AND GOVERNOR SCOTT WANTS TO
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  • -1 +9 -10 Danielle Apr. 16, 2012
    "I'm against tenure because it's about the adults and not the students."
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  • -2 0 -2 justthefacts May. 7, 2016
    "Can anyone name me any profession who works less hours than a teacher r u kidding me they have the whole summer off not to mention they have every holiday on the books off even voting day in many states / city & towns we spoil them rotten and now you can't even fire the ones who are not doing a good job r u kidding me ?

    What gets me if I was 1 of those good / great teacher working hard to make sure I 'm giving my students the best possible education I would be very upset watching these poor useless teachers destroying all my hard work"
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  • -2 0 -2 Madison Mar. 25, 2016
    "Teacher Tenure?
    Have you ever heard of teacher tenure? Well if you have, I'm here to tell you why I think teacher tenure is a bad idea.
    The first reason is that it's not needed to recruit. At Sacramento High School, which doesn't offer tenure, had 900 teachers apply for 80 job openings.
    The second reason is that it cost money to remove a teacher from tenure. It costed $250,000 to fire a teacher that was on tenure in New York City.
    The third reason is because in k-12 levels, it's not earned, it's given to nearly everyone. To receive a tenure at university level, you must earn it, even in k-12 it's given to you if you "stick around".
    In conclusion, I don't think teacher tenure is a good idea because it's not needed to recruit, it cost money to remove s teacher from tenure, and k-12 levels get it given to them. What do you think?"
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  • -2 0 -2 Lisa Barone Nov. 14, 2014
    "As a contracted support person who has spent most of my career working in the educational environment I have seen and heard a lot! I am absolutely against teacher tenure. Teachers feel safe after tenure and will then stop teaching and coast until retirement. I've seen this too many times! I've witnessed student abuse by teachers that is covered up. I've reported and nothing is done. Teachers spend their time on the computer or cell phones while kids color or watch a movie. I've Actually been told, I cannot take a day off because I'm not tenured yet! As soon as they are tenured they go on mini vacations. I've seen teachers pinch, pull hair and drag students down the hall. No one does anything. Because I am contracted, Ive seen this in many many districts so it isn't just one. Parents would be appalled by what I've seen. The administration has even witnessed this and they do nothing. They protect teachers, and teachers protect teachers. The good ole boys cub is alive and well amount teachers. What other job can you have where no matter how poorly you perform you are garunteed your job?! I've witnessed an early childhood teacher take a child for a walk in the snow in just his socks because he refused to don shoes."
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    • +1 +1 0 Brutus Feb. 19, 2015
      "I seriously doubt that there is much truth to what you have written. You write that teachers are protected from pinching, puling hair, physically dragging children and forcing children to do activities that are harmful to their health because they have tenure and that is total BS. If, and I highly doubt that this occurs with any prevalence, occurs in a school, administrators have grounds to suspend and initiate the firing process, tenure does not protect that behavior at all! The fault in these types of situations should be placed on administrators and those who saw the actions as well. You say that you've witnessed abuse too many times and reported it, is that it! You have essentially confessed to seeing a crime, child abuse, and all you did was report it to administration and not child protective services or the police!? I think that the complacency here is not just teacher, but you are complacent as well."
  • -2 +4 -6 Scottie L. Jan. 9, 2013
    "I'm con because I am part of the school system in a college preparatory school as a student. At my school, it seems you are more likely to become a "super-senior" (A senior in college and high school classes who has to repeat their senior year). Many people have had to repeat 2-3 times just because of a few teachers, such as a UCD teacher at my school who has a cockamamie system of grading and is very bias. She actually failed me (along with around half the class) and I have to double up on classes my senior year now. Only one senior will graduate on time this year because of her. All others will have an extra semester to a year. Along with a teacher we have currently who doesn't speak full English and reads more than he teaches. Tenure has failed the school system because sometimes teachers can gain it in as little as 2-years. In which case, it is borderline impossible to fire a teacher who is failing all of their students. A teacher must conduct lewd actions in order to get fired if they have tenure. Watch a documentary called "waiting for superman" because, to be honest, I think I would learn more if the school system shut down and I joined an intern program to develop my future career. It is honestly sad to think this."
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  • -2 +4 -6 Mike K. Nov. 15, 2012
    "It has its benefits but a different solution like a performance pay system would benefit our school system tremendously"
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  • -5 +1 -6 JESSICA Jul. 29, 2013
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    • 0 0 0 bob Jan. 6, 2014
  • -5 +6 -11 jonathon rosalia Apr. 28, 2012
    "its no longer needed with current laws and breads bad teachers"
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  • -5 +7 -12 dr. b. rosenberg Mar. 14, 2012
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  • -17 +2 -19 Edgar Flores Mar. 22, 2012
    "No because using tenure they can't let go of a good teacher just to save money and the board need to do better job also need to get it together"
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